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Anshu: 

Welcome to The Wineitupanotch Podcast, a podcast where we talk about wine life and everything in between. My name is Anshu Grover. I'm a wine specialist and I am your host and I am so glad that you have decided to join me today. Thank you for doing so. 

Today we will be going into part two of my interview with proprietor and winemaker, Jean-Phillipe Saby from the Saint Emilion region of Bordeaux. 

Now, if you missed part one, you've got to go back and listen to it. It was fascinating and Jean-Philippe shared some excellent information, which you know, is definitely the preamble to what you're hearing today. So like I said, if you missed that, go back and check it out. 

If you are listening in your earbuds to this podcast, that's fantastic. But I just want to remind you that this particular episode is available on YouTube in case you have not yet figured out that you can get this podcast on YouTube now too. 

So if you're interested, go check it out. And if you are watching on YouTube, hi there! It's great to see you! 

And with that, with no further ado, let's go over to part two of my discussion with Jean-Philippe Saby. 

I hope you enjoy it. Cheers.

Anshu:

So we're getting 90% of Chateau, how do I say it? Hoa?

Jean-Philippe: 

Osha. H-A-U-C-H-A-T-. 

Anshu: 

Okay. I know how to spell it. My French is not amazing though! And then they also have Chateau Guillou. 

Jean-Philippe: 

Chateau Guillou, yeah, which is the mountain side of Chateau Saint André Corbin.

In fact, Saint Georges Saint Émilion is the smallest appellation of Bordeaux. It covers only 180 hectares. Very tiny and you have the Saint Emilion Grand Cru facing to the north, so it's one slope (south exposure), and on the other side of this slope, you have the Plateau of Montagne, and it's only a road - you have a road that separates the Saint George side and the mountain side and on the other side, this is Chateau Guillou. 

And we sell the Chateau Guillou not at the same proportion as the Fronsac, but uh, we sell it, 

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Maybe 20, 30 percent of the production in the LCBO. 

Anshu: 

It's a beautiful wine. It's the wine that, you know, caused me to reach out to you and I've written about it on my social platforms. I really enjoyed it. 

Now, what markets are your wines going to? So where are you mostly sending your wines when they go international? Are they being consumed in France as well? 

Jean-Philippe: 

So I must confess that I am a bit lazy for the sales force. When I have a client, I start a relationship with my client and I develop it. 

The evolution is to have a stronger commitment to promote the wine in the market of my client or to receive lots of buyers, or salesforce reps to explain the wine because this is a strong commitment for them and it's strong commitment for us.

And, I must say that this is my best option to develop my business. As I grow my estate, my vineyard, I grow my commitment to the same client. 

So I sell my Fronsac 90 percent in Ontario.

I sell 90 percent of the Saint Georges Saint André Corbin in the United States, I sell maybe 30 percent of my Saint Émilion Grand Cru Château Rosier in France, 30 percent in old Europe - I mean, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany - uh, 30 percent in, uh, in United States or abroad. 

We are very widespread. We never put the wine in the same basket, but sometimes... 

Anshu: You never put all your wine in one basket, yeah? 

Jean-Philippe: 

No, no, never! 

Sometimes when the product fits well to a market because of its history, because of many different things, you keep focusing on this market. 

That's why, 90% of the Fronsac is sold in Ontario and 90% of the Saint-Georges Saint Emilion Saint André Corbain is sold in United States.

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And I've seen during the COVID disease where nobody can move, nobody can explain the wine, promote the wine…. I've seen how strong my commitment with my old clients were - all the business were by phone. And it works!

It was a very good moment for us to realize how strong the commitment with my client was. 

Anshu: 

Now, you've mentioned people come to visit you. You explain to them about the wine and of course the family's approach. Do you also visit the markets in which your wine sells?

Jean-Philippe: 

Yeah, exactly. This is quite important.

I've never been in a market where my wines were not distributed. But when I see that, the moment is good for me andthe market is ready, I go and visit the market to promote the wine, to explain…..not for my client, but for the distributors of my client, the sales force of my client, the wine shop manager of my client..... 

Uh, you know, my clients are importers. They have different clients and each time, if you explain to your client what is your policy, what is your philosophy, what is your way of making wine, he will translate it to his retailers, he will then translate to your customers, and then to the restaurant, to the waiters of the restaurant….. and, the speech will be different. This chain will have a certain distortion.

And, sometimes it's quite good to go and explain and to see directly the rep, to promote the wine directly in the supermarket or in the wine shop, or even in restaurants, or in the winemaker dinners. That's really important.

Also, which is really interesting, is to go to the market and listen to what is the feedback of your wine or the feeling of the market. What they are waiting for - a new slightly different type of wine ….if they want a more, uh, fruity 

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easy to drink wine…. more natural or more oaky.....whatever.

It's good to listen and to learn what is the feedback they can give to you. 

I have an example in the American market. We changed the caps. The caps used to be traditional caps but in copper, but it was too expensive and we had to change to aluminum.

And when the aluminum caps were put on, it was wonderful. The bottle was very nice. We sell, we ship the wine and for us, it was cheaper and more efficient. 

But when I went there and I was talking about these new caps to the waiters in restaurants, they said that it was a nightmare to open it. They cut themselves because the aluminium was too strong and too, uh, sharp. So I realized that it was unprofitable because nobody wants to open my bottles, it was too dangerous. So I realized that it's not a good option. It's a small example… but most of the time it is very useful to go to the market. 

Anshu: 

No, absolutely. That's an amazing example because I think it really shows how you're, you know, interested in your customers and listening to them and how they're experiencing the wine.

Sometimes I think, you know, we think about wine as a very romantic thing where you're with the land and you're with the grapes and you're creating your art. But there is the other side as well with the consumer. 

Jean-Philippe: 

And, most of the time, you know, people like wine, but they are not focussed on the knowledge about wine. They just appreciate the wine and they don't want to know more than the quality of the wine. And the quality is something very personal. 

And I realize that the wine needs to be exactly at the right moment. 

It's important not to be too difficult to open the wine, not to be difficult to prepare the wine too much. It's important to stay with a good wine to lay down, but it's also important to have a wine that is ready to drink because what is more 

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important is to satisfy people and to have a maximum of satisfaction of the people. And, I don't think that complication of the wine is a good way. To make the wine inaccessible…..sometimes, it's counterproductive and it's not a good way. It's not a good way. 

Anshu: 

So are you a fan then of screw cap closures? Do you have both screw cap and cork?  

Jean-Philippe: 

I have no screw caps yet. 

I wonder if the market - and certain market maybe - will be ready to have the screw caps. Honestly, I'm quite…. how can I say…. I can't be the first to make the decision to make a Saint Emilion Grand Cru in screw cap., I can't. I'm not, uh, strong enough. I'm not, uh….I'm not courageous enough!

I'm not courageous enough. 

Even if now we have a good feedback of the evolution of the wine and particularly the laydown potential in screw caps, I know that we have very nice results…… um, but you know, it's, uh, tradition. Sometimes tradition stops you to be more efficient 

Anshu: 

Maybe that's the next generation's evolution. You never know. 

Jean-Philippe: 

I think so, yeah. 

I'm absolutely not worried about the evolution. It will be the case. Sooner or later, it will be the case. I'm absolutely convinced. That's the way. 

Anshu: 

It's interesting. I've been doing a lot of reading about it. So, uh, it was fascinating to hear what you would think. 

 What I'd like us to close out with is some of the passion with which you talk to me about maintaining the land and passing it on to your children if they want to you know, continue and you gave me a fantastic quote. You might not remember, but it did make it into my paper about the land that you got in the land that you want to basically return to the next keeper of your land. 

So I'd love it if you would just tell us again, you know, which vineyard are you sitting in front of, show us the mountain in the back. And then I would love if you would talk to us about your philosophy around sustainability. And if you could as well maybe talk a little bit about Bordeaux at large and some of the challenges that the Bordelais are 

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facing when it relates to climate change, or sustainability, profitability.

I mean, any of that sort of stuff, I would just love to be able to share your perspectives on that with anybody who watches or listens to this. 

Jean-Philippe: 

Let me just start with one of the main topics personally because I'm nearly 50. I entered my fifties and for me, the transmission of my industry, my assets, my philosophy, my legacy, my passion... 

You know, transmission is not only a matter of patrimony, it's also a matter of philosophy, passion, and way of life in general because the commitment is so strong.

You have no Sunday, no Saturday, no particular holiday. 

If I can sum up my philosophy, I am the ninth generation of winemakers and I don't want to be the last one. But when I say that, I don't want to make too much pressure on my children because obviously the future is theirs and it's not mine. And I know that they have to find their own way, their own life….even if it's not exactly my life; it's not exactly my way. 

But I want for them that Saint Emilion and winegrowing be part of their life.

I need to accept that this is their own choice and to show [them] how wonderful and how passionate our challenge is. 

The winemaking business, in general - it's not only a matter of agriculture, but it's also, uh, food industry. It's also marketing, promoting, selling and now, eno tourism, which is a very strong part of my business too. 

So yeah, it's a very wild field of different jobs and they have to find their own place in this. 

In general, if I can talk about Bordeaux and 

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wine in Bordeaux in general, what is the most impressive in the Bordeaux region is how strong the wine industry is. 

You see vineyards everywhere - to the east, to west. 

You see wonderful buildings - modern, uh, traditional, authentic, completely crazy. 

You see different type of making wine. 

Just like a melting pot and all this is around wine.

We think about wine, we dream about wine, we drink wine, but, but also we see the future with our wine. 

It's not possible to imagine Bordeaux without wine, that's the way it is. 

Even if I don't know exactly what kind of wine growing and winemaking it will be in the next 20 or 40 years, I can't imagine that Bordeaux will not be able to find a solution to fix all the problems we will have to face in the next 20 years or 40 years. 

I'm sure that we will find a solution because too many people are involved and are completely, deeply passionate about wine.

Anshu: 

I think what you've hit on just for me to summarize it is really that, you know, I do think that Bordeaux is facing some significant change in terms of market preferences, in terms of climate change, in terms of even intergenerational interest in continuing family legacy. So there's quite a bit of change afoot. 

I, as someone who has visited Bordeaux…. has loved Bordeaux wine for a very long time - I'm very happy to hear your enthusiasm and optimism! 

So. I've taken so much of your time. Thank you so much. Is there anything that you would want to leave us with or anything else we haven't covered that you want to share with anybody who watches or listens?

Jean-Philippe: 

No, just to say I'm very proud to be part of this Bordeaux wine industry. And, I am also very confident in, uh, in the next generation to find a solution to any 

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Anshu: 

I'm with you on that!