Anshu: [00:00:00] 

Welcome to The Wineitupanotch Podcast, a podcast where we talk about wine life and everything in between. My name is Anshu, I'm your host and I am thrilled that you've decided to join me today. Thank you for doing so. 

Welcome to Episode 27 of the podcast! 

Today, I have a very special podcast episode for you. 

It's on a very relevant topic I get asked about all the time, which is what do I do if I plan a trip to Napa Valley? 

I find Napa Valley to be a destination that a lot of people want to go to, but they always tend to be confused. 

So when I found an opportunity to speak to somebody who specializes in all things Visit Napa Valley, I jumped on the opportunity! 

Today in just a moment, you'll be tuning in to a conversation between myself and the Director of Communications of the Visit Napa Valley organization, an organization that's dedicated to promoting travel and all things Napa Valley. 

And I think that you will find this conversation to be very informative just as I did. 

Now, before we go over to that conversation, I want to let you know that maybe there was a little bit of a personal motive in this conversation, in that when I recorded this, I was also planning a trip to Napa Valley, which I have now taken. 

So I will be back in a later episode to share my own personal experiences with my visit to Napa Valley and to share my itinerary with you if you're interested and to share my thoughts on what we hear in today's episode and whether I found that to be true personally, or how I incorporated some of those learnings into my own travel plans. 

So stay tuned for that. 

But for now, let's roll over to the conversation that I had with Sarah from Visit Napa Valley. 

I hope you enjoy it and find it to be helpful. 

Cheers! 

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Anshu: 

Hi Sarah. So thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your time. 

Sarah: 

It's my pleasure to be here and thank you for including Napa Valley in your podcast. 

Anshu: 

You know what, I couldn't miss the opportunity. Obviously, Napa Valley is so huge on a world scale when it comes to wine and wine lovers really want to experience Napa Valley wines and come to the Napa Valley.

So when I stumbled upon your organization, I thought - this is perfect. We need to 

[00:02:00] 

talk. 

I'd love it if you'd start off by just letting us know a little bit about Visit Napa Valley, the organization that you represent. 

Sarah: 

Absolutely. So, Visit Napa Valley is the official destination marketing organization for the Napa Valley.

 And that is all to say our role is to promote, and protect the Napa Valley and inspire people to visit from all over the world and we look at the Valley as the entire valley from American Canyon all the way up to Calistoga - that's 35 miles long and five miles wide - and we also, um, look to inspire our local community to also come along on the journey.

Anshu: 

And we're going to talk about it in a bit. You have an amazing website, which I think is an incredible resource for anybody who wants to visit. But before we do, Sarah, maybe tell me a little bit about yourself, what you do with the organization, your background before joining here, and how long you've lived in the Valley.

Sarah: 

Sure. 

I'm the Director of Communications here at Visit Napa Valley, and I've been with the organization just over a year. Prior to that I worked in a marketing function at an agency with a focus on wine and spirits. I've decided to move to Napa Valley after college and ended up being able to get into the wine business at an early age. And I've been here about 20, just a little over 20 years. 

Anshu: 

Amazing. So we're talking to someone who's got the right experience, both living there and in the industry of wine. 

Sarah: 

Right, right. Well, I'd like to think so. Yeah. 

But it's also a place that I call home. As soon as I moved here, I knew immediately this was gonna be where I was gonna be for a long time.

Anshu: 

So maybe if you could, let's think about somebody who really wants to visit the Napa Valley, but never has, has this impression of what Napa Valley is and you have a moment in an elevator with them. What would you say in a minute or two about the Napa Valley to really encapsulate what the Valley's all about?

Sarah: 

I think that's a great question because first and foremost, the Napa Valley is an agricultural community. That's how we were founded and that's how we've remained. In fact, in 1968, the group of vintners 

[00:04:00] 

came together and said, let's create and protect this valley with an agricultural preserve and so that legacy continues today.

So today the Valley remains an agricultural valley, it remains a place where wine is first and foremost, as well as hospitality and food. So it's a really beautiful place to visit. We have beautiful scenic vistas and wonderful locals who are ready to welcome you.

Anshu: 

Now I'm privileged. I've been, and I get to go again. So I'm very excited. But I know some people can find the Napa Valley intimidating - wine lovers I'm talking about specifically - just because it's so storied on a world stage. Um, but you know what? Let's talk wine. So, How many wineries would you estimate there are in the Valley?

And if you could give us a little bit of a sense of size, scale, style. You know, I think a lot of us think about the Napa Valley's really large wineries that have very, very expensive bottles of wine. But tell us more just about size and scale. 

Sarah: 

So the Valley is actually quite small.

As I mentioned, we're 35 miles, from north to south and there are about 400 wineries that are open to the public. There are a few more on top of that, that make only private wines throughout the Valley. We also have about 90 tasting rooms. And those are, you know, at a storefront where you can go in and taste with an expert. 

So in terms of size, many of our wineries are quite small - in fact, about 90 percent actually are family owned. Then there are also those that have created the reputation of Napa Valley. So there's a little bit of everything, and there's also a place to learn about wine. 

And that's the main goal of many of the tasting rooms, and many of the wineries is to help people along their journey with wine. So, we hear that it's intimidating, but, I think when people come and they see the warmth and the friendliness of the people, especially at the tasting rooms and in the wineries, that sort of intimidation factor just melts away.

Anshu: 

And I would agree. I think that was my experience too. I went to visit the Napa Valley before I became a wine 

[00:06:00] 

professional, when I was just wine curious as I like to say. And I was very pleasantly surprised that everybody was quite welcoming, even in the largest tasting rooms that were completely, you know, filled with wine lovers and people who knew more than me.

On one trip, I had my children too and just, very lovely, uh, warm people greeting us the whole time and made us feel welcome. So I'd have to agree with you there. 

Sarah: 

Yeah, I think in most part, you know, people are trying to meet them where the guest is, and that's that world class hospitality that Napa Valley is known for.

So whether you come with a degree in wine or as you said, wine curious, the goal of the staff and the teams is to really meet people where they are. 

Anshu: 

Now if we talk about Napa Valley as a destination, and obviously we're in California, um, there's lots of places that one can go, even if they're interested in wine.

And Sonoma Valley's right there, Sonoma County, right there. So what would you say makes Napa Valley distinct and unique and different as a destination to visit? 

Sarah: 

You know, I think the main difference is just really the intense focus on wine. That's what we do, that's where our economy is based.

But also it's a lot smaller. It's much, much, more compact than our neighbors to the west and to the south. So, where Sonoma County stretches beautifully from the mountains that you see behind me, all the way to the coastline and north and south of us, we are really compact, a little bit further east so we get a little bit warmer days, and cooler nights. But, it's really that compactness and that focus that I think distinguishes Napa Valley from other California wine destinations. 

Anshu: 

And if we talk just briefly about the geological formations - you talked about being in a condensed area between effectively two mountain ranges.

Is that fair? 

Sarah: 

Absolutely. Yes. 

Anshu: 

And the appellations differ a fair bit as well within the Napa Valley. A lot of times I think people think of Napa Valley as "the valley", but there's so much more to it. Did you want to speak about that a little bit? 

Sarah: 

[00:08:00]

Absolutely. Again, that smallness, um, even though we're small, we're actually quite diverse in our soil types.

We have 16 different appellations throughout Napa Valley. The Valley spreads out at the base at the southern end and then makes an arc across and then we also have some wine growing regions up into the hills. 

So, you know, you can be in Calistoga, tasting at Frank Family Vineyards for example, and get a very, very different experience than you get when you're in the southern region looking at Cuvaison or Artesa, which are some of our wonderful locations in the Carneros region.

Anshu: 

And I'm quite interested when I come to get into some of those mountainside or hillside wineries because the wines are, as you said - and I say this as a scholar of wine - very different from what we're going to find in the valley floor. 

I think another thing people should keep in mind is that temperature changes quite a bit through the day as well in the Valley, so it's not consistently hot all the time. And in fact, I think in the mornings it can be cooler. Later on in the day, it can be a little bit warmer, and that also varies from being on the valley floor versus up in the mountains. Is that accurate?

Sarah: 

That's absolutely accurate. You can be wearing a, uh, you know, a Patagonia jacket in the morning and a t-shirt, you know, by 10 o'clock, and then putting that jacket back on at five or six o'clock in the evening. 

So, yeah, you definitely get a temperature change throughout the day and you'll feel it. And that's really what makes us one of the great places to grow wine is that temperature change. It allows the grapes to ripen fully, and then it also allows the vines to relax and recover each day throughout the growing season. It’s definitely unique to where we are. 

Anshu: 

And to those intrepid travelers, my friends who want to come - make sure we pack layers! I've always heard that advice because you'll need a range of clothes if you're coming to the Napa Valley.

Sarah: 

Yes, absolutely. It could be a hundred degree day, and then you go and you take a tour in one of the wine caves and it's a consistent 50 or 60 degrees in a wine cave. And so that temperature change for your body, you're like - 

[00:10:00] 

"Oh, I need a sweater!!!"

So, yeah. Um, a scarf, a sweater, um, or a jacket is, um, always, you know, whatever the season. 

Anshu: 

Excellent. Now, you know, I've heard a lot of people say colloquially that Napa Valley's a very expensive destination to visit. It's maybe not in my budget. What would you say to people, um, you know, if a listener feels they're on a budget, and I'm using air quotes on the word budget because I think we all have our own budgets, but if they feel that perhaps a visit to the Valley would be too expensive, what would be your thoughts?

Sarah: 

Well, I think there's a couple of ways to tackle that. One is to get yourself educated. We have a fantastic website, and on the website we have a listing of wineries that have tastings that fall under the $50 price range. Many of them actually are in the 20 or $30 price range. So there's that.

And then, for accommodations and for food, we have a wide range - quite a breadth - of different accommodation and food options that can accommodate many budgets. 

Anshu: 

Okay, perfect. So check the website. I have to say, I did see the tab quite prominently displayed of wineries that you could visit at a very reasonable price. 

Sarah: 

You know, another way to tackle it is, to maybe do, less, but spend more time at those spots and then to fill your day with some great sight seeing, maybe a hike, we have some canoe trips on the river - so there's a lot of different things to do that don't break the bank.

Anshu: 

Perfect. Now you've touched on the topic of, maybe go to a few less wineries. So I'd love your perspective on - in a given day, given you know, size, needing to drive around the geography of the region - how many wineries do you think one should plan to visit in a given day? 

Sarah: 

Well, I, personally, I would do no more than two.

It's possible to do three but that would be pretty much my max recommendation. One in the morning, take a break for lunch, do one in the afternoon, and take a leisurely drive back home to wherever you're staying and enjoy the resort or the hotel or the accommodations that you've chosen.

You know, I think that what that 

[00:12:00] 

allows you to do is spend more time and really connect with a winery. That's really been the focus, even prior to the pandemic, was to give visitors a longer, fuller experience at each winery. So, it works best for both if you don't pack in your schedule so tightly. 

Anshu: 

Now I'm in trouble Sarah, because when my husband hears this, he's going to say I told you we should only be visiting two wineries a day.

And I've made him squeeze in three. But it sounds like we're on the upper edge of your recommendation there. 

Sarah: 

Absolutely. I think, you know, especially if you're tasting with that professional mind and know what you want to get out of each visit, it's definitely possible to fit in three.

The other thing I would also just highlight is that while we are only 35 miles long, we're an agricultural region as I mentioned and so the roads are smaller and they take more time to travel from north to south. So just book in yourself an extra 15 minutes or so between appointments than you think you might need.

Anshu: 

Fair. Thank you for saving me! 

Sarah: 

(Laughter). But it can be daunting because there's so many, right? And there's so many places that are so storied. And then you want to make time to find a new discovery and you wanna go back to your favorites. So we certainly understand the challenge of trying to book in your day. 

Anshu: 

(Laughter). Thank you. I appreciate that. Like I said, I might be in trouble after he hears this. 

Now on the topic of choosing which wineries to visit - so from your perspective as someone who is representing the region and knows it quite well, how would you recommend (not specific wineries, because I think that really does come down to people's personal taste) but how would you recommend one goes about thinking about some of the wineries that they might want to visit?

You can always ask someone like myself, a professional or, you know, reach out to somebody who lives in the region if you're lucky enough to know somebody. But if not, maybe using the website that you have as an organization, how would you recommend people choose the wineries that they visit?

Sarah: 

There's a few different ways to tackle that, right? One is, you know, where are they located? So if you're dead set on going to one that you've heard 

[00:14:00] 

about, book that, and then look around that area or nearby for your other choices.

I also like to think about it as a compare and contrast. So, you can either take the tack of "Let's taste wines this trip that are all Cabernets from Rutherford", or "Let's look for different regions that we've never been to before and go into a deep dive". 

Or alternatively, if it's the first time, maybe let's look at something that's very, very small and then look at another one that's more established so that you can see the breadth and depth of the offer in Napa Valley. 

I think it's also helpful to look at different styles. So if you really love sparkling wine, try sparkling wine tasting in the morning and then in the afternoon, look for those richer Cabernets and Merlots that you're going to find on the valley floor. 

Anshu: 

Those are great tips. Now, what if somebody doesn't necessarily want to go visit cellar doors? So they want to taste the wines, they want to experience the region, and maybe from a budget perspective also don't want to drive too much or pay for formal tastings. Are there tasting room type restaurants or wine bars that people can go visit as well in the region? 

Sarah: 

That's exactly right. We have about 90 tasting rooms that are in our cities and towns.

So we have American Canyon in the South, then you have Napa, Yountville, St. Helena, and Calistoga. And in each one of those there are different tasting rooms and wineries that welcome people throughout the day. And then on top of that, you can definitely find a great list of wines at restaurants.

I always tell people, if you've got a lunch booked, you know, consider looking at their wine list before you go so that you can add that as part of your education. But yes, tasting rooms, if you've got, you know, half a day and you're in downtown Napa, pop into one of the tasting rooms and then maybe take your bike and ride on the wine trail. 

We have what's called the Napa Valley Vine Trail from Napa all the way up to Yountville. And then you can taste in Yountville! 

[00:16:00]

Anshu: 

Oh, I love that. And actually, that feeds beautifully into the next question, which was - I mean, you've said it's not a huge region, but there is, you know, to get from point to point a need to drive.

Now, I hope a lot of people would be responsible and say, okay, if I'm drinking, I don't want to drive. So what are the options you don't want to drive for any reason - how do you get around the region? 

Sarah: 

Well there's a couple of things. One, we do have a number of different transportation companies that provide car service throughout the Valley, but we know that that can be an investment.

 So there are a couple of other ways to go about it. 

We do have Uber and Lyft here in the area, so you can get from place to place during the day pretty easily. and then we have, as I mentioned, the Napa Valley Vine Trail.

Right now, we have about 12 miles that go between the city of Napa and Yountville. And coming later this year, the area from Calistoga to St. Helena will be completed and then eventually we will connect the two and it will be 47 miles from Vallejo to Calistoga, on a safe, separate bike path. So that's gonna be a lot of fun and a great addition to the Valley. 

Anshu: 

That's gorgeous. I'll have to come back and do that for sure! 

Now, we can't talk just wine, I think, without talking food, because obviously food is such an important part of the wine experience. So what would you want people to know about the food scene in Napa Valley? 

Sarah: 

You know, I think we're so well known for our Michelin star restaurants and for that California cuisine. I think the concept of farm to table really originated here in California and that really is at the cornerstone of much of the cuisine. 

But again, just like with wineries and with hotels, there's a breadth and depth of the experience here - food trucks to those Michelin star restaurants and everything in between and I think the other thing that I think distinguishes us is that so many of the restaurants are family owned and family run.

They're small, they're local favorites. My husband and I tend to go to a couple here in downtown Napa,

[00:18:00] 

but there's also favorites that we have in Calistoga and in St. Helena that are not owned by big companies. They're single restaurants that have been here for many years.

So, I think that's, you know, one of the things that people should know is, is that they're small and that they, are really focused on providing that great, great California food. 

Anshu: 

And am I right in remembering that the Visit Napa Valley website, does actually list restaurants as well?

Sarah: 

We do, we have, everything from wineries, hotels, restaurants, things to do.... actually we're just updating our blog on the Free Things to Do in Napa Valley. 

Anshu: 

Great, so let's then talk about some wine-adjacent experiences. So we've talked wine, we've talked food, getting outdoors, hiking, biking.

But what else can people do to round out, if they're coming out for a couple of days, what could they do to round out a trip to the Napa Valley that you would say is top on your list in terms of experiences? 

Sarah: 

You know, I think we can't end this talk without talking about the Napa Valley Wine Train.

It is truly, truly a unique experience and one that you definitely need to book time for if you do wanna do it. There's a few different trips that they take. One is a shorter lunchtime, um, and then there's another few that go further and longer with that experience.

But you board a beautifully restored train in downtown Napa and you take that up the valley all while being served exquisite food and wine. It's a beautiful thing to do in the summer, in the evening, there's a dinner train, or during the day in the winter months.

Anshu: 

Well, you've just taught me something new. Even as a wine professional. I did not know about the wine train. It had skipped me in terms of experiences. 

Sarah: And the staff on the train are remarkable in their ability to serve while moving and all with a smile and grace, it's really remarkable. 

You know, we do our famous wine balloon.

You know, the balloons that are, um, you know, the lift off every morning. But that is an early morning rising opportunity - they 

[00:20:00] 

don't, go up in the afternoon because of the prevailing winds. So that's definitely an early rising opportunity but again, another beautiful way to experience the Valley. 

Anshu: 

And how many balloons go up in the morning?

Sarah: 

There are some times when you'll see 10 or 12, and other times there'll be six or seven. It's something that all locals, we look for in the sky, so..... 

Anshu: 

Sure, yeah, I see them behind you. For those who can see us visually, they're right behind you in the background there.

Now we have not talked about spa experiences. I think the Napa Valley's quite known for spa experiences as well. Am I right? 

Sarah:

Absolutely. In fact, up in Calistoga, they were really founded by the idea of taking in the waters right, taking in the springs and there are a number of classic, original spas that have been renovated up in Calistoga.

You know, it's a great place to experience a spa. but also at many of our resorts, they've also worked that into that experience so that when you come, maybe you're coming for a special occasion, a honeymoon or, for a anniversary. You know, taking time and carving out that time for yourself, um, because we learned in the pandemic, you know, time is really the greatest luxury.

 And this is a great way to relax, reconnect with yourself and with your loved one. 

Anshu: 

And what types of people are coming to visit? So we've mentioned people on their honeymoons. Mm-hmm. People coming to celebrate an anniversary. That would be me this time. I assume maybe people who are about to get married on their bachelorettes or bachelor parties.

Give the listener an idea of. What time in their life might be a great time to come. I, I think anytime is a good time to come, but you know, if there's something special coming up, you know, what kinds of people are coming to celebrate those special moments in the Napa Valley?

Sarah: 

You know, we see visitors from all over the world, all walks of life. We love the guys trips that are going to play golf, at some of our fantastic golf courses. We love seeing girls getting together and reunions from college and, also, you know, couples you know, just because they love wine and they're experiencing those passions together. And, 

[00:22:00] 

it's hard to categorize, you know, one type of person who's coming here. So, the more, the better and the more diverse, the better. 

Anshu: 

And would you say that it's a family friendly destination? 

Sarah: 

We do welcome families. We have different resorts that cater to families.

We have experiences that are, you know, hiking and biking. as well as some great food experiences that are family friendly. The Culinary Institute of America has a campus here in the city of Napa called Copia and there's a fantastic museum of different cookware collected and displayed there in the museum.

And I see kids in there all the time and just wowed by all of that. So, definitely families should bring kids. 

And, if you do, there are some wineries that have some rules around that. But, there are definitely wineries that welcome families.

Anshu: 

And that's great to hear. And I wanna reiterate that I mentioned that I had come one time with my children and of course, they have to be respectful of the environment, but they were welcomed and I think that a lot of times families with younger children hesitate about going to wine country.

And maybe we'll defer those trips even though they want to go so badly because they don't have someone to take care of their children at home. Or they feel that their children will not be welcome in such a setting. But I think it is, as you said, all about planning properly and figuring out what are the things that we can do together and where could we go together as a family where perhaps the grownups could still, you know, enjoy a wine experience, and the children would be welcome.

But I think you made an important point about not assuming that that will always be the case. So again, it does kind of come down to research, doesn't it? 

Sarah: 

It does, yes. And we have - on that www.visitnapavalley.com website - we do have family friendly as one of the choices that you can select, as well as adults only.

There are people who want to come just and go to a "just adults" location. So, doing that research on the website can be very helpful in advance. 

Anshu: 

Excellent. Okay, so I think I am down to maybe one or two questions for you. 

I thought that maybe it would be helpful to give people, and again, a lot of this 

[00:24:00] 

information for the listeners is available on this excellent website that Visit Napa Valley maintains.

We'll just give you the URL at the end and it'll be in the show notes as well. But I thought it would be great to give people a sense of some of the key events that happen in the Valley throughout the year that one could plan a trip around. 

Sarah: 

You know, Napa Valley and music have become synonymous over the last several years.

When I first moved here in 2000, there was music, but it wasn't to the degree that we have now. We have a fantastic festival called Bottle Rock Napa Valley, on the rock side. And then we have a festival called Festival Napa Valley that really brings in classical music and is raising money for arts and education, and music education in schools.

So, look for the music tracks that come to Napa Valley mostly in the summer, starting in Memorial Day through September timeframe. 

In the winter can be a wonderful time to come to Napa Valley. In the city of Napa, we have a beautiful, free lighted arts festival that brings people out, very family friendly.

And then, at the opposite end of the valley is a fantastic, lighted tractor parade in Calistoga. Saint Helena has a wine barrel tree that they put up. They close a couple of streets and bring in Santa and other festivities around the wine barrel tree. So winter can be a really, really surprising time to come.

Anshu: 

And how winter - I'm in Toronto so we get real winters here (laughter) - how winter is winter in the Valley? 

Sarah: 

Well, this year we had snow on our mountains. But that's quite unusual. Um, so, uh, I would expect some rain, um, some cloudy days, um, but typically forties, fifties as a high and a low in, you know, high thirties. For us, we're wearing a jacket, maybe a hat… but it's definitely not Toronto winters! 

Anshu: 

No...... it's a little, it's a little fresh though, I take it. 

Sarah: Fresher. Yes. But we also kinda have amazingly bluebird sky days. I think 

[00:26:00] 

people, when they come in the winter, they're surprised. 

Anshu: And would the winter be a time where potentially maybe it's a little less busy? 

Sarah: 

We see about 20 to 25%, lower occupancy, in our hotels during that time frame. So you can get some special deals perhaps and it can be a really, like I said, it's a really delightful time.

Anshu: 

And I have to say, since we just talked about getting into certain places, I do think one thing that listeners need to understand is there are some extremely - I don't want to say the word exclusive - but maybe difficult to get into places, particularly on the restaurant scene. 

So if you know that you're going to the Napa Valley and there's a restaurant in particular, you really want to go to, and it's got a Michelin and star or two, you're going to want to plan for that ahead of time because, some places you can't just make a last minute reservation and expect to be able to get in, especially during peak season.

Sarah: 

Absolutely. If there's something specific that you want to see, I always tell people - plan that ahead. If you are more open and really want a little bit more surprise and delight, there are options and there's definitely a place for you. But I think if you want that specificity, then you need to plan ahead.

And I think the same goes if you're going to France or to Italy or anywhere in the world.

Anshu:  

Fair - any of the top destinations, you have to plan. And I just want to reiterate that that's true of the wineries too. I think some of the really, prestigious large world scale wineries, if you will….again, you've got to plan those visits. You can't just necessarily turn up to the tasting room and expect that they'll be able to accommodate you. Maybe they will, but the more you plan the better. 

Sarah: 

Right, right. Absolutely. 

Anshu: 

Okay, great. Well thank you so much for your time! 

If I were to summarize, I think we've heard the Napa Valley is big yet small. You do need to plan, but there's lots for everybody. You can come on just about any budget, no matter what your background is. There's opportunity to come with your family as well. You can come year round, and just enjoy some really delightful - for my audience, wine experiences, but other wine adjacent experiences as well, 

[00:28:00] 

which just makes for a really well-rounded vacation!

And I just wanna reiterate, for those that are wanting to come to the Valley, of course you can reach out to myself or anybody else that you know who knows wine well. But be sure to check out the website, Sarah, I'm gonna let you say the URL just to make sure I don't mess it up in any way…

The URL is -

Sarah: 

It's www.visitnapavalley.com. 

Anshu: 

And it is a fantastic resource - I'd definitely say Wineitupanotch approved! I've used it myself. A great actually appellation map that has all of the appellations listed from the north to the south with the wineries plotted on it. So, I just think it's a fantastic resource.

No matter what your level of knowledge is or experience is with wine country or Napa Valley specifically, be sure to visit that website. 

Sarah, thank you for your time. I hope that our paths will cross again soon. 

Sarah: Likewise, and yes, I couldn't have summarized it better! Thank you for having us!